358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen

Of the three, only the .358 Norma has not become a standard chambering. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. Spl. The 25-degree, 30-minute shoulder gives plenty of room for powder, and though the neck of the .358 Norma measures less than the desired one-caliberit comes in at 0.328-inchthere is plenty of neck tension to hold the bullets in place without the need for crimping. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. An elk offers a large target, so extreme magnification shouldnt be necessary. Years of development and pushing the limits of what is possible in a rifle optic have led up to this moment. and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. The fortunate few who own them want to keep them, and these are the core admirers who make it worth Normas while to continue offering brass and loaded ammunition. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. Its a flat shootermimicking the trajectory of a .30-06 with heavier bulletsand is fully capable as an all-around choice. With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. Shortening the 2.85-inches long .375 H&H case wasnt exactly a revolutionary ideathat little-known .275 H&H so closely resembles the design of the half-century younger 7mm Remington Magnum that its uncannybut with the Winchester marketing machine the concept was brought to the forefront. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. plowed fresh ground. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. in the Big Bore Model 94. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. Folks who live in elk country may consciously seek a cow for the freezer. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. Can't really imagine one cartridge doing anything the other couldn't, though the availability of bigger bullets and way more factory ammo (if wanted) are definite pluses for the Mauser. By Layne Simpson. exlcusive user. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. None of this can be said for either the .338 Winchester Magnum or the .375 H&H. i have a 35 whelen and love it. Your at the old delema again: does 200 fps matter to the deer. Here are the features to watch out for. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. They will also slap down lighter game like deer, feral hogs and black bear with authority, of course. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. The .358 Norma Mag. That load has a maximum optimal range on 1000 pound game (like a big Alaskan moose or brown bear) of 151 yards. PerH AH fanatic Joined May 8, 2021 Messages 536 Reaction score 813 Location Norway Articles 2 Jun 4, 2021 #5 And the hunter must have full confidence in his or her choice. The hunter from afar, journeying into unfamiliar country, must also accept the pressure of a limited period of time and the knowledge that it may come down to just one chance. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. It is capable of driving a. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. So if you have a .375 (or larger) and a yen to take it elk hunting, be my guest. ), but with considerably less recoil. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. We owe a debt of gratitude to the engineers at the British firm of Holland & Holland; though it is lost to history who exactly designed the belted magnum cartridge, the .275 and .375 Holland & Holland Magnums were game changers. So it is fair to say that, over the years, .35 caliber rifles at least have caught the interest of the gun and ammo manufacturers, if not the general shooting public. The better ones create mild gallery or small-game loads that are economical, quiet, virtually without recoil and best of all a lot of fun to shoot. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. Rifle Recoil Table. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Most Professional Hunters agree that a bullet with a S.D. Recoil was completely manageable, and it inspired me to begin the journey of having my own .350 Rigby rifle built. From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. All Rights Reserved. The main problem with such potent cartridges is that they kick hard in rifles light enough to carry all day in steep places. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. would follow that tradition. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. with a similar 180-grain bullet. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. The .358 Win. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want to see the chronograph reading. Elk hunting can be extremely physicalnot only steep country, but also altitude and sometimes deep snow to buck. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Mag. And with modern powders and loads, it knocks on the door of the .300 WSM and .300 Winchester Magnum. This is not enough to argue about, so Im not convinced that the 7mm is better than the .270, but you can stoke it with a heavier bullet. In the entry on the .358 Norma, it maintains that, had Norma convinced a major American riflemaker to offer the chambering in the early years, it could have become one of the greats. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. We've got you covered. .22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9 mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. Back in the late 70's I picked up a custom 1903 in 358 Norma Mag, awesome rifle, very accurate and it put a thump on deer, I bought it hopping to get a moose tag back in MN, never did and sold the rifle. If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. It put an exclamation point on that lung shot. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Faster 6.5sthe new 6.5 PRC, the old .264, or the super-fast .26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherbywill deliver more energy and open the range envelope a bit. Now, I have to go out on a limb and say that sensible elk cartridges aren't all about power. Mag. Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Thats the primary game for many of us, but one size doesnt fit all. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. Perhaps, if the word gets out to the shooting public, the born again .350 may finally achieve the commercial success it deserves. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives. Tried and true. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. Re: 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. But there is no compelling reason to consider a caliber larger than .35. I'm looking for a simpler project on this one. Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Nils Kvaleone of the chief designers at Normahad experimented with a shortened .300 H&H case, necked to hold 8mm bullets, with the rim turned down to match the 8x57 rim diameter. That does not mean that any gunsmith who had his own ideas about velocity and accuracy might not include it or go completely the other way. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. It also notes that the reconstituted Schultz & Larsen company is offering the chambering in its Model 97 takedown rifle. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. The .35 Rem. From there, you can work up until you find a load that gives you the accuracy and velocity you want. The Hornady Superformance load for the .35 Whelen launches a 200-grain bullet at a blistering. I think Jack OConnor, the great champion of the .270, would agree. The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. Had the .358 Norma Magnum been chambered in an American rifle, or at least promoted by an American company, the popularity of the cartridge may have been much greater than it is. I have needed to reach 400 yards, but never a whole bunch farther. Mag. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. Customer experience was, and still is, the primary focus, a key to the firms longevity and success. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Unlike either the .338 or .375, the .35 (.358-inch) has been a standard American caliber since 1900. The bullet went in behind the near shoulder, struck the far shoulder from the inside, and the blue bull hit the ground with a thud. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. You can start with the 6.5mms. An elk is bigger than anything most deer hunters have encountered, but theres still a variance; a cow for the freezer isnt much bigger than a very large deer, but a mature bull elk is different. Its a great gun for moose and elk, bear and boar, and for bison as well. Quite a difference! Synthetic stocks arent always lighter than wood, but they are stronger and more stable, and elk hunting can be hard on rifles. These are elk cartridges, and as Jack Atcheson Jr. likes to say, the .338 numbs them. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. Mag. Petersen's HUNTING Publisher, Kevin Steele is in the CZ booth with Dylan Rice at SHOT Show to talk about CZ 600 Series Trail rifle. 35 Whelen. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. figure of 0.300 is desirable, and comparing similar cartridges, youll see the .350 Rigby comes in a bit behind the other popular choices of the day. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. A medium variable in the 3-9X or 2.5-10X range should be enough scope for elk hunting. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. The cartridge predates the more famous .416 by three years, and the .350 Rigby was the first to feature the sharp 45-degree shoulder which is the hallmark of the Rigby designs. But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. In more recent times, the 1994 release of the .450 Rigby gave dangerous game hunters a bit more bullet weight than the .416 Rigby and has developed a small but devout following among both professional hunters and their clients alike. The .358 in a bolt-action rifle with a good scope is as accurate as any hunting cartridge available. There was a time when I questioned the adequacy of the .270 for elk. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. Essentially the .338 Winchester Magnum necked up to hold .358-inch bullets, the .358 Norma Magnum made all sorts of sense to a hunter in pursuit of large game, such as elk, moose and the great bears of the north. So, if you have an interest in carrying an ultra-rare cartridge of impeccable pedigree, you either roll your own or have someone load it for you. Not so the .358 Norma. Mag. 10 GA. Why cant we love the .35? Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? Publisher Kevin Steele is in the Beretta booth with Logan Killam, the Shotgun Product Manager, to discuss the all new Beretta A300 Ultima Turkey. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. With modern powders the muzzle velocities can certainly beat those of the Cordite loads a century ago, especially in a modern rifle. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. Mag. I was wrong. Can this be made into a .358 Norma Mag or must I do a .35 Whelen. The 358 Norma is a sure mag round, but expensive ammo and brass. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. Bottles & 12-oz. The 250-grain .358-inch bulletwith a sectional density of 0.279if properly constructed, has enough length to handle the brown bear and bison, and all of the African plains game species, plus lion and leopard. From a 12 twist bore, accuracy sweet spots for light bullets include 2950fps with 180 grain bullets, 2925fps with 200 grain bullets, before normalizing with 225 grain bullets at 2900fps. The .358 Norma Magnum is a rifle cartridge introduced in 1959 by Norma. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. Energy figures have it knocking at the door of 375H&H. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. Mag. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. Honestly, the concept of being overgunned is somewhat mystifying to me, provided you can place the shot. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. I wont go so far as to say thats foolish, but theres a major difference in size and toughness between a cow or spike and a mature bull. For this reason, anyone acquiring a .358 Norma should start low with every load and work up slowly and carefully. was also the only cartridge of that original Remington family that was based on a different parent case. Elk bullets must be tough enough to provide adequate penetration. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. of muzzle energy. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. The full spectrum of our many 7mms, from 7mm-08 and 7x57 on up to the fastest 7mm magnums, are also fine, but they are not magical giant-slayers. Compare practically any small bore cartridge (.32 caliber or less) with a .35 caliber cartridge of similar powder capacity and the result is pretty much the same. Today, it is strictly a custom proposition unless one of the original rifles chambered for it can be found. Then come the .30s, and now were talking business. The .350 Remington Magnum is the only cartridge that appears on both lists of current and obsolete calibers. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. The .35 Whelen is a necked up medium bore wildcat cartridge that was created by necking up a .30-06 Springfield case which is famously overpowered for the 30-caliber bullet it propels. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. I'm sending my 270 tikka off to JES rebore to get it punched out to 35 whelen. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. Its also worth noting that, in spite of its relative obscurity, the cartridge appears in many of the most recent loading manuals, including Normas own, a worthwhile addition to anyones reloading library. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Follow along to see exactly how. You bet they worked! The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. Choose at least medium weight for caliber: 140 grains in 6.5mm and the lighter 7mms; 140 and 150 grains in .270s; 150 to 160 grains in faster 7mms; 165 or 180 grains in .30 calibers. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. Frankly, I would not want to be without them. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. I've owned several Magnum Mediums338 RUM, 340WBY, 375 H&H, 375 WBY, 358NM, 338WM. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. Essentially a .338 Magnum with a bigger mouth, the .358 Norma can push 250-grain bullets faster. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. Not necessarily top dollar everything. The rivalry between the .338-inch and .358-inch bore diameters has a considerable history; both topped out at 300 grains (at one point in time in history), and both have a lower end of 180 grains. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. was simply a .308 Win. necked up to .35 caliber. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. Lyman lists 47 different moulds that were available at one time or another, ranging in bullet weight from 70 to 282 grains. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. All rights reserved. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. Is the .358 Norma Magnum a cartridge destined to make a huge comeback? And for the larger antelope species, like any of the eland, wildebeest, zebra and roan, the .350 Rigby Magnum is a sound choice. I took it to Texas in 1989 and decked a nilgai at about 90 yards. You get the shot you get, and within sensible limits, you must be able to take the shot offered. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. I did secure properly head stamped Norma cases thinking we'd need them going over into the Yukon (no one ever checked). There is only .007-inch (seven thousandths) difference between the .270s .277-inch bullet and the 7mms .284-inch bullet. bruce. Another vote for something different.The 358 STA would be the one. This is comparable killing power to the long .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet (ME 4331 ft. Is there a way to find out what year it is by serial #? Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. Have all three, and have not shot any of em My medium is a 9,3x62. My favorite hunting round. Powders such as IMRs Trail Boss, Accurates 5744 and IMRs discontinued SR-4759 all work with lighter bullets, and sometimes accuracy is very good, even if the gas seal is not. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. It has never failed me. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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