December - February gas mixture begins to vaporize at 11-15psi at 105 deg F, April gasoline is 9-11.5 psi at 124 deg F. If you had winter gasoline in your Antique car on a 100 deg day you would only be about 5 degrees from vapor bubbles in the fuel. If I could get 75-85 octane, non-ethanol, Regular gasoline that vaporized at above 180 deg F, I think my car would run fine all the time. Yes. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov/passenger-vehicle, WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including Styrene which is known to the State of California to cause cancer. This product is intended only for the thinning of industrial maintenance coatings. The summer gasoline vaporizes in the line and the heat soak is quicker and longer on hot day's. To minimize exposure, avoid breathing exhaust, do not idle the engine except as necessary, service your vehicle in a well-ventilated area and wear gloves or wash your hands frequently when servicing your vehicle. Most certainly it will be my plan to fully explore the possibility of "treating the Fuel", with hopes that diesel fuel will make just enough difference to avoid any re-engineering. YES the boiling point of gasoline can be raised (or lowered) by an additive - depending on what it is - as can the autoignition temperature which will increase "knock" - using the right additive for the fuel you just bought and put in your tank is the trick and it is always going to be hit and miss - depending on what refinery produced the gasoline in the first place. Lower octane will not hurt your car if the compression is low. What one is after is new "liquid" fuel which vaporizes easily in open air, lights easily and has a rapid flame spread but NOT a hot explosive one, and burns easily and completely under one atmosphere of pressure - what we call 14.7 to 1 - BUT - and this is most important; does not auto-ignite at a low temperature and WAITS to be lit by the spark after being compressed in the cylinder. Amazon has encountered an error. Though I once has it working with only two 0-140 regulators, and since I had messed with the 0-140 regulator on the carb feed side trying to get it to work previously - it popped up to 50 psi - but the 15 psi reg held at 9 psi to the carb - for about 5 minutes, until I tried to reduce the 0-140 below 50 psi. The other possibility is that it is due to the higher pump pressure. I found this document on my local Oil Refinery's web site and it may help explain some of the problems with vapor lock and hard start. Please try again. Street/Strip Carbureted Applications The '54 Bentley already has an electric SU pump back near the tank, and it's low pressure output is just about right for the two SU H6 type carbs. Wouldn't the water still evaporate at the same temp? Holley 12-804 Fuel Pressure Regulator 3/8 pipe thread ports 7/32 restriction Pressure ranges from 1 to 4 PSI Includes mounting bracket Satin finish This regulator is used to adjust to fuel pressure requirements of various carburetors and supplies the proper pressure to the needle and seat valve to prevent flooding or drivability problems. . Everything does just fine, until temperatures rise above 80 degrees or so, as they are soon to do. With this set up, pressures throughout system varies only very slightly from atmospheric, lower up to the vacuum tank and higher in the gravity feed from the vacuum tank to the carburettor. Fuel pressure regulator includes mounting bracket with 2 each self-tapping screws for regulator to bracket installation purposes and 3 screws for bracket to vehicle installation.Regulator has a 3/8" NPT . A: Log In / Register Order Status. 4.9. That was in the 1990s, so you can project to more current times and suspect we have something more sophisticated now. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on January 31, 2016, Reviewed in Canada on January 27, 2023, Reviewed in Canada on December 18, 2019, Reviewed in Canada on November 10, 2020, Automotive Performance Fuel Injection Systems, Automotive Replacement Fuel Injection Pressure Regulators, Learn more how customers reviews work on Amazon, Holley 12-804 Reg, Fuel Press 1-4 Psi Pol. 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Please make sure that you are posting in the form of a question. Neither the Holley instructions nor anywhere I can find says what the maximum inlet PSI should be allowed to the regulator - but I was told it was 16 psi and one other spot on the web says something similar. This Holley FPR (12-804) use to be a perfect choice to solve the "too much fuel pressure" produced by the aftermarket fuel pumps on vintage VW. To ensure this condition, the installation of a Holley 12-810 oil pressure safety switch is recommended The carb should not flood even with the pump running unless it is putting out enough pressure to over come the float bowl shut off mannerism mechanism of the carb. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. THESE INSTRUCTIONS MUST BE READ AND FULLY UNDERSTOOD BEFORE BEGINNING THE . I ordered the 12-804 regulator online because I couldn't find one locally, this is for an engine on a piece of equipment that I make my living with. The float has a needle that projects through the top of the carburettor so it is possible to see whether the float is "floating" or not. It is a measure, as I understand it, of how readily the fuel will evaporate in open air. Show details Take a look at the article below. Two Port I had a chrome dial regulator, which leaked gas everywhere but luckily didn't actually burn down my ride. Note also that PURE ethylene glycol is also flammable but also miscible with water. Each Holley fuel pressure regulator is fully adjustable so regulating the fuel pressure to your engines needs is a simple task. couple more questions, Rusty, what exactly are "heavy ends"? Includes initial monthly payment and selected options. Q: I got all of my supplies in the Home Depot fittings section. Lots of Chinese Holley 12-803, 804 etc knock-offs are available. A vapor lock condition would be caused. I've had some luck using LeadMax2000 but it's not a 100% cure. But, . 12-804 12-500 Low-Pressure Fuel Regulator (std. This regulator is used to adjust to fuel pressure requirements of various carburetors and supplies the proper pressure to the needle and seat valve to prevent flooding or drivability problems. Boy am I glad to have happened on this thread. There is no hard and fast cutoff for any of these. Google ethyl acetate and pay attention to it's "pure" boiling point, and remember IMCT is a blend of a white gas family of a petroleum distillate and ethyl acetate. Also in Tools, Shop Equipment & Chemicals, Cataclean - Fuel and Exhaust System Cleaner, Cataclean Diesel - Fuel and Exhaust System Cleaner, Distribution Blocks, Filters, Adapters and Fittings, Microswitch and Solenoid Mounting Brackets, Mr. Gasket Fuel Pressure Gauge - 0-15 PSI - 1-1/2 Inch Diameter, Mr. Gasket Fuel Block with 0-15 PSI Liquid Filled Fuel Pressure Gauge, 25 GPH Holley Mighty Mite Electric Fuel Pump, 1.5-4 PSI, Earl's Fem.1/8" NPT to Male 3/8" NPT Pipe Bushing Reducer. The peak was reached in the sixties when heavily leaded gas of over 100 octane was available. Average for the last 12 months. That work continues today through Holleys EFI products as well as through Holleys family of brands. The reliable, albiet slower, stovebolts never suffered vapor lock because the fuel pump and lines were up front in the airstream of the engine fan. Remember STILL transporting fuels was a dangerous thing - and higher grade fuel could just as easily have exploded on it's way to the fueling station or in those glass top hand operated early gas pumps on a hot day. NOTE: P/Ns 12-841, 12-842, & 12-879 utilize 3/8" NPT inlets and outlets. Q: Then I got this good one, to try to get 1.5 PSI to the Kadrons. In theory the vapor carburetor was the way to go in that day - with lower flash point fuels like poor grade fuels that all pretty much resembled the weight of kerosene in that early day of motor fuels. Please try again. $12.15: ac000400: Front Axle Beam Bushing Reamer For 1.34 Up To 1.50 Diameter . You refer to the problem of the additive increasing the propensity for the fuel to self ignite however in my case the compression ratio of the cars is so low (around 4 : 1) that I doubt that it would be a problem. Had to reset to Zero. te4cmCbGnt]&~`N@RPyBTa$=~fo:/T 92YE)3Uofo4Ou].-zowDt*ae^qf9z/?. Reviewed in the United States on June 20, 2021. Then, we got what was loosely described as winter gas, all year round, with RFG. So this thread has been a great find for me particularly at this time. If so how? on this design the adjusting screw all the way out should decrease the pressure the most - IF the ball valve will seat TIGHT, When I adjusted pressure below 30 - it would not seat any longer even with the adjustment screw all the way out. ESPECIALLY a 10% ethanol blend - once generically called the gasohol summer blend in that vapor system would really be a problem. Overview. There is supposed to a marking on the spring with the correct color, red or gold if it is the low pressure spring. Putting kerosene into gasoline - while both are hydrocarbons - and they will blend - the lighter oil nature of the kerosene to the solvent of gasoline; in an amount of 5% is not enough to change the STP vapor point of the gasoline, but it will weaken the octane rating of the gasoline enough to feel it under acceleration AND under pressure will raise the vapor point enough to perhaps prevent vapor lock depending on the ambient and under hood temperatures of where one is located. This Holley universal low pressurefuel regulator is factory-setto 2.7 PSI, but is fully adjustablefrom 1 to 4 PSI. One is a deadhead and one is a by-pass. In those days before 1905 kerosene had a strong piercing odor and coal oil lamps sometimes exploded. By the way, I had an excellent service from this seller (5 stars!). Boiling is a violent version of vaporizing. This part is legal for sale and use on Uncontrolled (Non-Emissions Controlled) Vehicles. No mention of vapor lock issues, but engine de-carbon activities. There's always a catch with bargains, Reviewed in the United States on July 9, 2022. The fuel pump and fuel line setting top center of the engine was not only in the hottest ambient temp, except for the exhaust manifolds, under the hood they acted as a heat sink transferring heat from the block to the air. Driving on a warm day in heavy stop start traffic it started vapor locking on a climb - using 10% ethanol fuel with no additive . Click here to find a Error posting question. Was actually disappointed with the quality of the regulator. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. Regulator Box showed signs of being opened and clumsily closed and the advertised Rubber Gasket or Gaskets that were mentioned in the instructions were missing. WARNING! I like the attached simple explanation of the issue. CALIFORNIA WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm - www.P65Warnings.ca.gov. In some areas, according to the map, RVP can vary from about 7.0 to 9.0 in some of the fuels. To keep it on simple terms, several people have confirmed that adding some kerosene, diesel fuel or stove oil will reduce the tendency to vapor lock and will NOT hurt an older model, low compression engine. The chemistry class experiment you are referring to will yield the approximate boiling (vapor) point at STP - Standard Temperature and Pressure ONLY. See also Tom Ogle's "modern" vapor fueling system - google it. As the car is parked Temperature. Holley Performance Products has been the undisputed leader in fuel systems for over 100 years. Holley 12-804 1-4 Psi Carbureted Two Port Fuel Pressure Regulator: Item #: HLY12-804 : Quantity: Price: $53.99 Add to cart . I prefer to keep things simple but I appreciate the more correct technical approach. Call 800.979.0122, 7am-10pm, everyday. Prewar cars have very low compression and will run better on gas that has some kerosene added. At first it seemed fine, set it to 1.5 PSI and away we go. If your having pressure controll issues with the Holley regulators you can eliminate most problems with stability by installing a by pass line back to the tank and usualy a street car can use 1/8 copper. The two will be very close to the same just as would Water and Anti-Freeze boiled in an open pot. I tried to bring the 0-140 pressure feed regulator down to 30 by adjusting the two - to up the return flow and lower the feed pressure - but the 15 psi reg I had just worked on started to climb past 9. Exclusive, high-quality Global Featured Holley Transmission Kickdown Cable Bracket 20-121; Gold Zinc Steel for 700R4 . . However I would welcome you advice on the following. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov. We will have the previous answer corrected. One must understand the chemical reactions and interactions of blending other hydrocarbons into what we call gasoline and then still have it able to have the same properties desired of the product called gasoline. It will get you close. I would welcome your advice on this - with apologies for the length of this post. On occasions here in NZ, we get extreme heat and old cars vaporlock. In this document is a chart for Seasonal Gasoline Specifications. Never had it act up while running, but since E10 fuel came along it is borderline getting started after hot shutdowns. You can wire a by-pass switch for priming if it is really required. We currently do not have an estimate when this item will ship. Some can be used for either - or. I will be trying one of these but am curious what is the active ingredient(s). Holley carburetors have powered every NASCAR(R) Sprint(R) Cup team and nearly every NHRA(R) Pro-Stock champion for four decades. If this is true, how come adding antifreeze to water raises the boiling point? Works and does the job. Powered by Invision Community, http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/retail/retail_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/f/FN_modern_petro_vintage_engines.pdf. I wanted to upload the map, but at 2.73mb, it was too big. Inlet from fuel pump is at bottom. How much should I add to every gallon of gas.I believe they are adding about 5% ethanol to the fuel here. Features: Adjustable fuel regulation from 1 to 4 psi .220" (7/32") restriction 3/8" NPT ports ( 1 in, 2 out) Chrome finish Mounting bracket included Pre-set at 2.8 PSI About Holley The 12-804 is made from durable aluminum and has a satin chrome finish that is extremely resilient to corrosion and abrasive chemicals. The regulator that was shipped to me has an internal spring from a different model of regulator, the spring should be red. Reviewed in the United States on April 2, 2022. Too much anti-freeze - (typically ethylene glycol) causes the opposite effect even under pressure of the cooling system. => https://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R7914-3rev3.pdf. . It needed a bit of adjusting for my purpose, but other than that, it performed perfectly. Yes you can adjust fuel pressure with this regulator. We tend to speak of pressure as higher or lower than atmospheric however it is a relative measure and pressure applies under all conditions. It is no different than mixing water with ethylene glycol to make what we call anti freeze or with methanol to make windshield washer fluid - you get a completely different product - it is not just water any more; and nor can you separate them back into their original separate entities - so you cannot think of them that way any more either. Loosening the regulator locknut and turning the adjustment screw clockwise increases the pressure. It's unlikely that anything's stuck. None of these contain lead and so should not damage a catalytic converter if you have one, HOWEVER too much IMCT will prolong the burn and may result in unburnt - STILL burning HOT gas being exhausted in the exhaust cycle. I still think they sent you the high pressure one. (that is this one in the image below) The adjustment spring under the adjustment screw is pushing down on the diaphragm holding the ball off it's seat. I have heard true lead (LeadMax2000 or simillar) may do this as well? If I wait a hour for the system to cool to ambient temperature then it starts easy. The ethyl acetate in the IMCT loosens hydrogen bonds on the gasoline making it easier to light to burn, but the "oil" - heavier hydro-carbon nature keeps the vapor point higher and flash point still low enough to give good performance. Chrome Finish. Volatility is a measure of the gasolines tendency to vaporize under a given set of conditions. . The Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regulator features 3/8" NPT in/out ports. (that is this one in the image below) The adjustment spring under the adjustment screw is pushing down on the diaphragm holding the ball off it's . It makes no discernible difference to power but if the conditions are sufficiently adverse it will still vapour lock and then you just have to wait until it cools. Holley 12-804 low pressure regulator, Weber, jeep etc. The fuel pressure is at 1 - 3 psig since the pump is not running. Point and secure it into a clean container Inlet pressure of 7 psi limitation means your pump can not put out more than 7 psi to the regulator for it to properly operate. The check ball is held shut with the diaphragm and spring and once the desired fuel pressure builds up it opens that valve and allows fuel to go back to the tank. Refineries have been doing this for decades. This diaphragm repair kit is for 12-803 and 12-804 regulators. I mix Industrial Maintenance Coating Thinner (IMCT) around 1 oz per gallon - which is basically a blend of petroleum distillate in the paint thinner / mineral spirits (once called also "white gas") family and ethyl acetate and not only does it cure vapor lock it increases octane because you can feel it in the power and acceleration. 12-804 : Quantity: Share : . Browse In Stock and Ready to Ship Alternatives, Universal Fit, 1-4 Fuel Pressure Rating (psi), Aluminum. This item cannot be shipped to your selected delivery location. Kerosene diesel fuel or stove oil will work. do you have a picture of it hooked up? The 12-803 BP is a By-Pass design of the same style. Holley Carburetor Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 To 4 Psi Bottom Inlet Sides Are Outlets from Pacific Customs Unlimited your best source for Street, Off Road, Sandrail, Dune Buggy, Manx, Rock Crawler, Volksrod, or Mud Buggy VW Parts. Copyright 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Copyright 2008-2023 OReilly A: Q: if you were packing them in boxes they would look identical. Fuel pressure regulator includes mounting bracket with 2 each self-tapping screws for regulator to bracket installation purposes and 3 screws for bracket to vehicle installation.Regulatorhas a 3/8" NPT tapped fuel pressure gauge port and requires reducer 617-6157 to install the gauge. Holley low pressure reg woes #12-804. . I am having problems understanding why you say OD is wrong and Rusty is correct, it seems to me you are all saying much the same and that is that gasoline is made up of many components each having different boiling points and the components with the lowest boiling point are the cause of vapour lock. ***The inlet pressure limitation is 7 psi. (see reg-setp.pdf), This is the same design as a Holley 12-803 or 804 knock off, so I looked up Holley's instructions. http://www.frontieroil.com/attachments/contentmanagers/106/PrdctsSpec_UnleadGasSpecs.pdf. In the later 1960s, it was somewhat common for people who were going on vacation, in the summer, to add a gallon or two of diesel to a full tank of gasoline for their trip. Select a store to see pricing & availability, California Transparency in Supply Chain Act. 03-28-2012, 03:04 AM. Another thing you can do is wire the fuel pump to be hot in run and start through an oil pressure switch - so if the motor shuts off or looses oil pressure the fuel pump shuts off too. Typically there are "winter" and "summer" blends with different vapor pressures to promote atomization at cold temps and to discourage vapor lock at hot temps. Holley Manufacturer Part Number 12-804 Manufacturer Holley Assembled Product Dimensions (L x W x H) 3.50 x 3.50 x 2.50 Inches Warranty Warranty information 90 DAY REPLACEMENT IF DEFECTIVE Warnings Warning Text proposition 65 reasons:titanium dioxide, other chemicals WARNING - California Proposition 65 None Report incorrect product information the installation of a Holley 12-810 oil pressure safety switch is recommended for installation into the wiring circuit. To avoid extra back pressure on the pump, and to keep cool fuel flow past the lowest pressure point in the fuel system; a by-pass line should be used and it should NOT "dead head" to the carburetor - that is put the return line as close to the carburetor inlet as possible. Adding some additives can raise the AVERGE boiling point but cannot remove the lower-boiling components, so regardless of what higher ends are present, the initial boiling point will remain that of the most volatile components. '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385"/6.3L SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crankshaft & H-beam rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge . The intent being to get "cool" fuel to the carburettor bypassing the areas where the system heats the fuel. What Rusty writes IS correct. Terms of Service. The vapor lock issues that I have are with 1920's Packards where the fuel system is essentially at atmospheric pressure throughout. fuel pressure in at the top, fuel pressure out on each side. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. I have found IMCT is a happy medium that does both in the right quantities - raise boiling point and octane just enough to be a "goldie-locks" kind of additive to help prevent vapor lock. Free Shipping - Holley Fuel Pressure Regulators with qualifying orders of $99. The following vehicles are considered Emissions Controlled Vehicles: *Free Shipping & Handling only offered to the contiguous US on orders over $100, excludes clearance parts and oversized packages. . The owner had tried all practical means to reduce the heat gain of the fuel system but with little improvement. It does however produce an irritating fume that irritates the eyes and mucous membranes when burning in gasoline. Going to check my VW bus fuel pump pressure. Vapor lock was just a fact of life for the Fords. Rusty said any heavier hydrocarbon WILL raise the boiling point - and I said Rusty is correct and OD is wrong. The only difference that the Holley tech told me between the two springs is the color. Free shipping for many products! Some of these items ship sooner than the others. NPT Inlet Attachment: Please choose a different delivery location. I would like to try IMCT, how is it sold? Sorry, we were unable to perform your search at this time. Somewhat of an inconvenience but that's why it's probably cheaper than other places selling the same part Great product from holley, but these do not come with the supplied tap that's suppose to be in box for the 2 machine screws that mount the regulator to the bracket. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 22035 Share Tweet #2 I suspect as the article suggests even with all these steps you can still get the crap gas to boil if it is hot enough under the hood. There is clearance around the needle which I would have thought would be enough to vent the increased pressure but maybe not. Among other places on the web - you will find a fairly good dissertation of the issue at => Evergreen Performance Systems, Inc. and Hydrogen Power Central | The true source for powering engines with Hydrogen - not "HHO". if you run a holley blue pump it is set at 14psi from the factory and you must run the regulator that came with the pump . Applications. . Great feedback from a knowledgeable group, guys! I do not have a pressure regulating valve to reduce the pressure from the pump but it works fine with no flooding under normal conditions and I have fitted a modern soft seat to the float cut off needle. Your question might be answered by sellers, manufacturers, or customers who bought this product. Usually, just runs really lean for a couple of minutes, and will not go above idle until fresh fuel finally clears through. ${cardName} not available for the seller you chose. finish) . Lots of Chinese Holley 12-803, 804 etc knock-offs are available. f9vxY"IpBQ? Accurate description. Its a bypass arrangement with non return valves to prevent reverse flow and is operated by a switch for use in event of vapor lock. This item: Holley HOL 12-886 Regulator $13129 MEASUREMAN 1-1/2" Dial Size, 304 Stainless Steel case, Liquid Filled Fuel Pressure Gauge, 0-100Psi, 3-2-3%, 1/8"NPT Center Back Mount $2597 Moroso 65380 Fuel Line Fitting $1701 Total price: $174.27 Add all three to Cart Some of these items ship sooner than the others. Some cars are much more apparent to vapor locking than others, I"ve never experienced here in NJ with either of my older Packards which see all kind of hot summer driving conditions. store Easier said than done - especially without a "chemistry set", OD says a simple high school chemistry experiment will show this - BUT I said the boiling points will appear the same under STP (Standard Temperature and Pressure - which is one atmosphere of pressure at 77 degrees F - commonly room temperature ) - BUT under pressure in a fuel line the boiling point (vapor point) will be raised enough to prevent vapor lock at higher temperatures. The regulator is a Holley 12-804, I was told it went down to 1 psi and I have a stock mechanical fuel pump. Reasonable . Some have reported more power, easier starting and cooler running especially in very low compression cars of the twenties and early 30s. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Holley 26-137 Adjustable Secondary Idle Lever at the best online prices at eBay! Easy to read. Changing the vapor pressure (and thus the boiling point) of gasoline is not new.